tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770912148002449366.post8984810216179445718..comments2023-06-21T10:19:22.192+01:00Comments on A Piece of the Continent: Redemptive suffering and running for charityIsabellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05399975452682018233noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770912148002449366.post-3270471494284021712016-03-30T13:01:21.258+01:002016-03-30T13:01:21.258+01:00I totally agree, it’s a very tough one, and I can ...I totally agree, it’s a very tough one, and I can only offer my own understanding of it. <br />Part of the problem I think is that self-imposed suffering mixes the idea of redemptive suffering and disciplining the flesh, which makes it a very confused concept. The way I see it is that we can offer up just about anything, our weakness, our failures, our pain, provided it is just that, a gift, not a form of gratification. But I also think that such extreme forms as you describe would have to be discerned as the will of God for you, rather than a general comment on insufficient suffering being provided by, you know, life! I vaguely remember something about the shepherds of Fatima being asked by Our Lady to mortify their flesh for the salvation of souls for example.<br />I am aware this is in no way a sufficient answer, I shall pray about it some more!<br />Isabellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05399975452682018233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770912148002449366.post-78210557553586417522016-03-30T12:36:04.958+01:002016-03-30T12:36:04.958+01:00Merci Agnès!
J'avais aussi pensé au côté capi...Merci Agnès! <br />J'avais aussi pensé au côté capitaliste de l'histoire, mais j'aime mieux me dire que tout le monde est secrètement catholique! ��<br /><br />Et bien sûr, aucun souci pour les commentaires en français! <br /><br />Bises à vous 5!Isabellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05399975452682018233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770912148002449366.post-82033493253821222062016-03-25T15:16:32.397+00:002016-03-25T15:16:32.397+00:00Bonjour Isabelle :)
Meige m'a conseillé ton bl...Bonjour Isabelle :)<br />Meige m'a conseillé ton blog, et je me régale :)<br />Aux US, il est fréquent que soient organisés le genre d'événements que tu décris, et j'avoue ne pas avoir compris pourquoi. Je me souviens avoir couru petite pour les kilomètres-soleil. J'imagine que pour des enfants, il y a une sorte de logique, ils ne peuvent pas donner d'argent alors ils donnent d'eux-même, un truc qui les fait grandir (courir, ou lire, ou ...), et les parents payent pour cela (cela parait logique que les parents investissent dans des trucs qui font grandir leurs enfants), un peu comme si les enfants touchaient un salaire qu'ils reversaient sous forme de don.<br />Mais lorsque l'on sort de la logique du donateur qui est intéressé directement par l'effort, cela devient extrêmement mystérieux. Je voyais ça comme un gros paternalisme capitaliste, mais ta lecture spi est très intéressante aussi :D<br /><br />Bises,<br />Agnès.<br /><br />(Les coms en français sont autorisés ?)Agnèshttp://marm0tte.free.fr/lafabrique/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770912148002449366.post-43710462235757029432016-03-25T14:45:50.672+00:002016-03-25T14:45:50.672+00:00Not really. I have no pre-conceived sexual idea o...Not really. I have no pre-conceived sexual idea of self-imposed suffering to mess things up - I just find the whole thing really disturbing. If our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, how can it be appropriate to perpetrate such acts on them? Why is it good to deliberately cause ourselves harm? Why is giving up one's pillow and offering up the resulting neck pain acceptable, but burning one's arm with a pewter cross and refusing to allow the burn to heal is unhealthy (this is an actual act of repentance I read about recently)? How does one differentiate between legitimate redemptive suffering and unhealthy self-harm, once it has been stated that self-inflicted suffering has value? <br /><br />Also, it seems to be a statement that there isn't enough suffering already in the human condition, that we have to deliberately cause more, which doesn't make sense to me either. The whole world groans with suffering, and how does laying a whip across my own back help that? I can go without meat to have more money to send to the poor, or go to a third world country, with all the attendant risks, and offer those things that actually accomplish something and certainly entail suffering on my part to one degree or another. What does causing myself pain accomplish?<br /><br />Toddler refusing to allow me to continue typing, but I would love to hear more about this. It is really a difficult topic for me to understand.Elizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01381906944928170359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770912148002449366.post-85591189374895152662016-03-24T08:51:23.766+00:002016-03-24T08:51:23.766+00:00I can totally see where you're coming from, bu...I can totally see where you're coming from, but it's only the prolongation of the idea that suffering has value in and of itself. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason we feel flagellation to be weird has more to do with yet again, the sexualisation of such acts as portrayed by the media (and we all wish people would get over the masochistic/sadistic nun fantasy already!). But is it easier if you put it in less shocking terms? Say, you give up your pillow for Lent and then offer up the pain you have inflicted your neck, even though it was voluntary?<br />Does that help?Isabellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05399975452682018233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770912148002449366.post-16589819782999147592016-03-24T01:48:52.920+00:002016-03-24T01:48:52.920+00:00I have often wondered what the connection was with...I have often wondered what the connection was with the weird things to raise money for charity, also. As a convert, I'm still working on understanding the whole deal with offering up suffering. I've been watching Vision this past week (my DVD player wouldn't play the last three chapters - so frustrating!! Does that count as something to offer up? :-) ) and was thoroughly horrified by the scene when two nuns are preparing the body of a third for burial, and discover she's been wearing essentially a belt of barbed wire for so long it has been eating into her waist. This, and self-flagellation, I struggle to understand the point of. Is there redemptive value to self-imposed suffering? I feel that the value comes in choosing to receive suffering with a good attitude, rather than in imposing it on oneself. But apparently the Church disagrees? I have read that St. John Paul II practiced self-flagellation regularly. I don't know if that is true or not. I find the whole thing incredibly disturbing.Elizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01381906944928170359noreply@blogger.com